jz4725

Wolfgang Spraul wolfgang at qi-hardware.com
Sat Aug 22 01:42:19 EDT 2009


Carlos,

> chip, because of the 64MB prices, Can you tell us how much a 64 MBytes SDRAM
> costs? In Digikey the price is four times the cost of a 32 MB SDRAM.

You cannot judge much at all from digi-key. Some components may be cheap
there, but hard to get at good prices in quantity, and vice versa.
Changing components is always a hassle.
If the Jz4720 supports two of the 32 MB SDRAM chips we currently have on the
Ben NanoNote, I'd say that's the initial candidate for how to go to 64 MB.
On the NanoNote, we don't have enough space for 2 chips, but on the
wall computer PCB, we have a lot more space.
Don't try to optimize prices from the distance, it won't work.
You can follow these guidelines:

*) Whenever possible try to stay within the BOM of the qi_avt2 board.
*) It's very easy to use a component that is already in the BOM _more
   often_ on the board, like 2*32MB instead of 1*32MB (assuming it's still
   the same chip).
*) When adding a new component, first try to look for something from
   a vendor that is already in the BOM.
*) If that doesn't work, and you need to introduce a new vendor/component,
   we need to do some investigation with Adam and/or our Chinese manufacturers.
   You can just throw it in for now in the design, but be aware that
   changes might be necessary when we get feedback from the manufacturing side
   later. It's not just price, it's also availability, testing, whether
   the factory already has a relationship with that vendor, etc.

> I think that a wall computer need a lot of USB port for mouse, webcam,
> wifi, etc. What do you think about that?

I agree. The qi_avt2 prototypes we will make soon will have USB host. If
it works then you can attach an external hub there and go from there.
One thing to keep in mind is thickness. If we want to be thin, it needs
to be more integrated. Even the wifi should better be a module then,
not a dongle hooked up over USB.

Wolfgang

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 09:22:51AM -0500, Carlos Camargo wrote:
> Hi
> 
> 
> > OK I got it. This works but I think it's so hard to get this serial
> > console working that it is beyond the reach of a lot of SW guys.
> > Needs a chip, some soldering, etc.
> 
> 
> You're right
> 
> > I agree, USB boot & serial console is a good start for development.
> > Which technical information are you lacking now? You said you have an NDA
> > with Sungale already and they sent you stuff? You got further than I did,
> > maybe I talked to the wrong people :-)
> 
> 
> We don't talk with any Sungale people, we bougth this Photo-Frame to another
> local company, but they are only a seller company.
> At present we can load our own u-boot and kernel image using usbtool, but we
> don't know how the lcd is connected. We need to know the GPIO that they use
> for power-on/off the LCD, Will be very usefull an u-boot .config file, with
> this info we can use own u-boot and kernel image, at present we use the
> pre-flashed u-boot an uimage, and we use our file system based on
> openembedded distro.
> 
> We use the configuration that Andres sent to the developer list, QT 4.5.2 an
> tslib from sungale ftp site. So we can run QT application in a filesystem
> compiled by us. Another interesting thing is that we can use the kernel
> modules compiled by us, this because they use the ingenic toolchain and
> kernel distribution.
> 
> 2. Take the already open qi_avt2 board as a starting point, and turn it
> > into a wall computer.
> 
> 
> I prefere this path, as you know, we can design a new wall computer, and we
> prefer work on your design, we can use the sungale just as a development
> board to test software.
> 
> 
> > The good news is that because the 2 platforms are so similar, software
> > development on either one will benefit the other. So no matter which way
> > we go hacking on the ID800 you already have is always a good start.
> 
> 
> I agree
> 
> We will try to find a way to send you an early-access program NanoNote.
> > Separately, as we talked about in earlier mails, you can investigate the
> > possibility of turning the qi_avt2 kicad files into a wall computer
> 
> 
> Yes, we are working on it, we are learning kicad and is a very good tool, so
> We use the qi_avt2 as base, i think that is necessary add another sdram
> chip, because of the 64MB prices, Can you tell us how much a 64 MBytes SDRAM
> costs? In Digikey the price is four times the cost of a 32 MB SDRAM. I think
> that a wall computer need a lot of USB port for mouse, webcam, wifi, etc.
> What do you think about that?
> 
> (actually we can send you a prototype of those in about 2-3 weeks as well,
> > if all works then you should have easily accessible USB host for Wi-Fi
> > etc.).
> 
> 
> Excellent, I'll be counting days :)
> 
> 
> > In parallel I will try to reach out to Sungale again, but I have a trust
> > issue with them right now after my first visit and review of their
> > factory, R&D and people.
> 
> 
> try to get the u-boot config file  :)
> 
> Best Regards
> Carlos
> 
> 
> Hope this helps, happy hacking and thanks again for the USB boot hint!
> > :-)
> > Wolfgang
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 06:23:02AM -0500, Carlos Camargo wrote:
> > > Wolfgang
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Wolfgang Spraul
> > > <wolfgang at qi-hardware.com>wrote:
> > >
> > > > Carlos,
> > > >
> > > > > I'm using a usbtool from
> > > > > http://vm-kernel.org/blog/2009/02/24/linux-on-onda-vx747/
> > > > > and i can run my own linux image and u-boot binary.
> > > >
> > > > Ah OK, that's from Yajin Zhou. His instructions tell you to press
> > > > the 'M' key while pressing RESET to let the CPU boot over USB.
> > > > How do you do this on the ID800WT?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I've already download a upgrade firmware from sungale, home-page:
> > > http://www.sungalewifi.com/module/chapter/indexsungale.php
> > >
> > > You can register on this page with the PF serial number
> > >
> > > The upgrade file have a lot of files, u-boot, kernel image, usb tool for
> > > config, etc.
> > > There is a instruction doc and as a onda MP4, is necessary turn - off the
> > > ID800WT, press the first button (the power button is the last) and pres
> > the
> > > power button again.  So you enter in usb mode. And you can use the
> > usbtool
> > > following the instructions on vm-kernel.org.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I found a serial port on the board, and the space for a max232
> > without
> > > > the
> > > > > RS232 outputs I'm attaching a picture, so I have a serial console.
> > > >
> > > > Your original attachment did not go through the list because of the 40
> > KB
> > > > size limit, I hope you don't mind I uploaded it to
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/hardware/hacking/emqbit_sungale_picture_frame.jpg
> > > > I think I can see that you soldered an additional chip to the U4
> > position,
> > > > and did some manual rework to it?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes, my socket was empty, I have this chip, max3232 from Texas and I sold
> > it
> > > to the board with some resistors. and .1 capacitors, They use 5V  with in
> > > the 4 pins socket at tje left side, and is necessary sold two resistor,
> > the
> > > max3232 is a 3.3V chip, and the JZ4740 serial lines are 3.3V too.
> > >
> > > As I said the JZ4740 serial lines are connected to the max232 chip, but
> > the
> > > 232 lines not, you can use the serial lines on the lft side four pinn
> > > connector (next to U4, I dont remember the conector label) with an
> > external
> > > rs232 converter or you can make the rework show in the picture, I cut the
> > > serial lines (3.3V) after 2 vias near to the top-left max3232 corner,
> > this
> > > vias make the JZ4740's serial lines and max3232 onnection. As you can see
> > > there are two wires from this vias to the 4 pins connector, You can cut
> > this
> > > lines and sold the pins 8 and 9 o the max3232 to them, so you can have
> > the
> > > rs232 lines in the 4 pins connector.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Interestingly, on my ID800WT U4 is totally empty
> > > >
> > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/hardware/hacking/sun_4740_dpf_v3_1b.jpg
> > > >
> > > > BTW, my board is revision SUN-4740-DPF V3.1B 2009-3-13
> > > > Which is yours?
> > > > There seem to be a lot of development (?) connectors like J113. They
> > > > probably
> > > > have USB booting, serial console, JTAG etc. on those connectors
> > somewhere.
> > > > I will try to ask Sungale engineering again, but don't expect much
> > there.
> > > > Do you have an x-ray machine so you can follow traces through the PCB?
> > >
> > >
> > > I think that with the serial port we can make a good development on this
> > > ID800, the only trouble is the lack of a sd connector, The JZ4740 drives
> > > directly a sd connector, but sungale use a multi-format reader card
> > attached
> > > to usb port, so you can use the sd but you need add the command:
> > >
> > > rootdelay=8 in the u-boot's bootargs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I can't upload any file to the SDRAM, because I don't know the SDRAM
> > > > layout,
> > > > > if you can talk with sungale guys, can you ask them if is possible
> > get a
> > > > LCD
> > > > > configuration?
> > > >
> > > > I have found it very hard to get accurate technical information out of
> > > > Sungale. Just remember right now (for most consumer electronics
> > > > manufacturers)
> > > > is the 'holiday season' because they are processing the orders for
> > > > Christmas
> > > > now. I will try again talking to different people next time.
> > > >
> > > > Wolfgang
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 09:14:01AM -0500, Carlos Camargo wrote:
> > > > > Hi Wolfgang
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Wolfgang Spraul
> > > > > <wolfgang at qi-hardware.com>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Carlos,
> > > > > > yes definitely, we should work together and it would be great if
> > > > > > your project would benefit from our SW and vice versa.
> > > > > > I'm in China right now and unfortunately Youtube is censored, I'll
> > > > > > try to watch the video later via US VPN :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have two links for you:
> > > > > > Do you know Nelson Castillo? nelsoneci at gmail.com
> > > > > > He is a really cool Linux kernel hacker living in Bogota, and
> > worked
> > > > > > for Openmoko before, still supporting it as a volunteer. Maybe you
> > > > > > can hook up with him.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I know Nelson, is a very smart guy and he is a very good
> > programmer,
> > > > > and he help us a lot with our first platform based on ATMEL chip.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Bearstech in France is looking for an open picture frame for a
> > while,
> > > > > > and I believe the one you found from Sungale could be very
> > interesting.
> > > > > > They could distribute this in Europe and beyond I think. If you are
> > > > > > interested we can help you get an introduction (not sure they read
> > this
> > > > > > list).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Great
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is it the ID800WT that has touch-screen and Wi-Fi? I visited
> > Sungale
> > > > > > in Shenzhen just 2 weeks ago, they said all their models use
> > Marvell
> > > > > > Wi-Fi, but the one I bought had an Atheros 2425 (aka Zydas 1211)
> > > > inside.
> > > > > > Still, even the Zydas chip has a very good Linux upstream driver.
> > > > > > Do you need any help with Sungale? I could contact them again next
> > time
> > > > > > I'm in Shenzhen. They are working on a new model that is much
> > thinner,
> > > > > > which will come out in a few weeks they say (I had a working
> > prototype
> > > > > > in my hands so it's credible I think).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes , the ID800WT has touch screen and Wi.Fi. My PF have a zydas
> > zd1211
> > > > usb
> > > > > wifi dongle. We want to develop a product based on sungale PF. I
> > don't
> > > > know
> > > > > if sungale is open to this idea, if you can talk with them is perfect
> > for
> > > > me
> > > > > :) My ID800WT arrived just the last week so, i doesn'y have enough
> > time
> > > > to
> > > > > play with it :)
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are working with the ID800WT - how did you get it reflashed?
> > > > > > I was looking for a way to enable the USB Boot feature that is in
> > the
> > > > > > Jz4740 CPU but couldn't find documentation about the debug
> > connector
> > > > > > they have on the board. I'll try to take a picture later...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm using a usbtool from
> > > > > http://vm-kernel.org/blog/2009/02/24/linux-on-onda-vx747/
> > > > >
> > > > > and i can run my own linux image and u-boot binary. I found a serial
> > port
> > > > on
> > > > > the board, and the space for a max232 without the RS232 outputs I'm
> > > > > attaching a picture, so I have a serial console. Unfortunately the
> > > > ID800WT
> > > > > doesn't use the ingenic SD driver, they use a multi card chip
> > attached to
> > > > > usb port, so we can't use the fatload command. I think that the best
> > way
> > > > to
> > > > > re-flash this PF is via mtd tools running on Linux.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't upload any file to the SDRAM, because I don't know the SDRAM
> > > > layout,
> > > > > if you can talk with sungale guys, can you ask them if is possible
> > get a
> > > > LCD
> > > > > configuration?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best Regards, thanks for letting us know about your project it's
> > > > > > great to see there are other people working on similar stuff like
> > > > > > we do! :-)
> > > > > > Wolfgang
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks to you, your product is awasome, we want  work with this chip
> > and
> > > > > share the experiences with everyone  :)
> > > > > Our company is very small and is very hard to us work with the local
> > > > > companies, becouse they use a very old technology, is very good for
> > us
> > > > know
> > > > > people like you, so you can help us  in our mission. We are a company
> > > > > founded by academic people and the open projects are ideal for us, we
> > can
> > > > > teach to our students with updates tools and techologies, and
> > contibute
> > > > to
> > > > > our country development
> > > > >
> > > > > The system block my mail for the large image file, can you send me a
> > > > private
> > > > > mail and i send the picture cicamargoba at gmail dot com
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks again
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Carlos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 08:24:02PM -0500, Carlos Camargo wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > > Let me introduce my self
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My name is Carlos Camargo a Software/hardware developer from
> > > > Colombia,
> > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > working with some products based on ingenic chips, JZ4740, and
> > > > JZ4725,
> > > > > > > We've ( http://www.emqbit.com ) already installed Linux on onda
> > > > Vx747
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > Sungale Photo frame:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap9FS4yswso
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At present we have a custom platform based on JZ4725, my question
> > is:
> > > > We
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > use your tools (u-boot, linux kernel, etc) with this chip ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best Regards
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > carlos
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Carlos Iván Camargo Bareño
> > > > > > > Profesor Asistente
> > > > > > > Departamento de Ingeniería Eléctrica y Electrónica
> > > > > > > Universidad Nacional de Colombia
> > > > > > > cicamargoba at unal.edu.co
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Qi Developer Mailing List
> > > > > > > Mail to list (members only): developer at lists.qi-hardware.com
> > > > > > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Qi Developer Mailing List
> > > > > > Mail to list (members only): developer at lists.qi-hardware.com
> > > > > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Carlos Iván Camargo Bareño
> > > > > Profesor Asistente
> > > > > Departamento de Ingeniería Eléctrica y Electrónica
> > > > > Universidad Nacional de Colombia
> > > > > cicamargoba at unal.edu.co
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Carlos Iván Camargo Bareño
> > > > > Profesor Asistente
> > > > > Departamento de Ingeniería Eléctrica y Electrónica
> > > > > Universidad Nacional de Colombia
> > > > > cicamargoba at unal.edu.co
> > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Qi Developer Mailing List
> > > > > Mail to list (members only): developer at lists.qi-hardware.com
> > > > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Qi Developer Mailing List
> > > > Mail to list (members only): developer at lists.qi-hardware.com
> > > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carlos Iván Camargo Bareño
> > > Profesor Asistente
> > > Departamento de Ingeniería Eléctrica y Electrónica
> > > Universidad Nacional de Colombia
> > > cicamargoba at unal.edu.co
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Qi Developer Mailing List
> > > Mail to list (members only): developer at lists.qi-hardware.com
> > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Qi Developer Mailing List
> > Mail to list (members only): developer at lists.qi-hardware.com
> > Subscribe or Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carlos Iván Camargo Bareño
> Profesor Asistente
> Departamento de Ingeniería Eléctrica y Electrónica
> Universidad Nacional de Colombia
> cicamargoba at unal.edu.co

> _______________________________________________
> Qi Developer Mailing List
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