Re: A language learning tool and the Qi 本 Nanonote

Richard Sharpe realrichardsharpe at gmail.com
Mon Aug 24 00:35:03 EDT 2009


On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Wolfgang
Spraul<wolfgang at qi-hardware.com> wrote:
> Richard,
>
>> The key will be the learning bundle format and its ability to leverage
>> existing content in the form of MP3s and dialog transcripts.
>
> Can we convert the data to a free format such as Ogg Vorbis and use that
> instead? MP3 is a patent minefield and we want to stay as far away from
> it as possible.

I have no problems with using Ogg Vorbis. None of the rest of the
format depends on MP3, and should be agnostic to that format, since we
really only need timing information, and a number of the APIs I have
seen offer callbacks at specific time points in the audio stream.

Converting should also not be a problem, although perhaps the owners
of the content would have to do that. I guess that the Learning
Workbench should do that step if the original content is an MP3 file.

> Wolfgang
>
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 10:34:35AM -0700, Richard Sharpe wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Mirko Lindner<mirko at qi-hardware.com> wrote:
>> > Hey,
>> >
>> > this sounds great. An application suite perfect for the Ben NanoNote and its
>> > users. A huge project though, but certainly worth the effort.
>>
>> Thank you for your comments ... I have been thinking about this for a
>> couple of years now.
>>
>> The key will be the learning bundle format and its ability to leverage
>> existing content in the form of MP3s and dialog transcripts.
>>
>> Initially I could probably manually produce the timing info using
>> something like Audacity, as I have a reasonable amount of experience
>> in looking at audio tracks with Audacity. That would certainly allow
>> me to prototype the Qi version of the playing/learning tool. The
>> workbench could come afterwards and there might be several versions.
>>
>> I think that once such a tool is available, content producers will
>> make use of it.
>>
>> > Do you know if there is similar project attempts? I only found site like
>> > busuu and forvo but no FLOSS desktop application.
>> > Would you want to collaborate with them?
>>
>> I am not aware of any similar attempts, but that does not mean there
>> are none. Thanks for pointing out busuu and forvo to me, I was not
>> aware of them. Busuu seems focussed on European languages, which are
>> not really my interest :-)
>>
>> I would collaborate with anyone who is interested, as that will bring
>> this to fruition that much sooner.
>>
>> > Again, great initiative!
>> > Let us know if we can help in any way.
>> >
>> > /mirko
>> >
>> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Richard Sharpe
>> > <realrichardsharpe at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi folks,
>> >>
>> >> here is an idea I have been mulling around for quite some time,
>> >> waiting for the right hardware platform to come along.
>> >>
>> >> As a student of Mandarin Chinese who has downloaded lots of
>> >> chinesepod.com and imandarinpod.com MP3s, I have wanted additional
>> >> facilities to help me learn and improve my Chinese.
>> >>
>> >> I think that one such tool would be the following:
>> >>
>> >> An application on a small computer that would:
>> >>
>> >> Play these MP3s that can be downloaded, but:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Display Pinyin or characters in sync with the dialogs being presented,
>> >> and
>> >> 2. Highlight the Pinyin/characters as words are being spoken, and
>> >> 3. Allow me to insert pauses of varying length between
>> >> words/characters (syllables in Mandarin), so that I can deal with new
>> >> material at a pace more suited to my abilities, and
>> >> 4. Allow me to highlight characters or words (词) and have them looked
>> >> up in a dictionary so I can check/reinforce their meaning and perhaps
>> >> have them pronounced in isolation.
>> >>
>> >> It would also be useful if I could repeat characters or words and have
>> >> my tones displayed and compared with a reference speaker (male or
>> >> female depending on your sex).
>> >>
>> >> It would also be useful if it could ask me to enter the characters
>> >> being used to check that I can reproduce the correct characters and so
>> >> forth.
>> >>
>> >> For the first part with items 1 through 4 above, I envision the
>> >> following pair of applications that are linked by a particular file
>> >> format. The file format is:
>> >>
>> >> 1. A standard MP3 file as produced by a content producer, eg,
>> >> imandarinpod.com
>> >> 2. A timing file/segment which lists the beginning of each relevant
>> >> piece of the dialogs or commentary in the MP3 file.
>> >> 3. One or more associated files or segments with the Pinyin or
>> >> characters that go with the dialogs and commentary.
>> >> 4. An answers file/segment that contains answers to any questions
>> >> asked in the dialogs/commentaries.
>> >> 5. A control segment with any control information needed.
>> >>
>> >> Items two through five would probably be encoded in XML and the whole
>> >> lot perhaps zipped up together as a learning bundle.
>> >>
>> >> The two programs would be:
>> >>
>> >> 1. The player, that runs on a Qi Nanonote. It would allow the playing
>> >> of these learning bundles. It would play the MP3 file and would
>> >> display the default text synchronized with the audio track by using
>> >> the timing information in the timing segment/file. It would highlight
>> >> the relevant words/characters as they are being pronounced on the
>> >> audio track. It would allow the user to select which textual material
>> >> to display from among the associated textual material files/segments
>> >> in the learning bundle. It would allow the user to insert pauses in
>> >> relevant places in the audio material and would fade out and fade in
>> >> before and after the pauses to avoid audible clicks and other effects
>> >> that would annoy the user. It would allow me to pause at any time and
>> >> to highlight words etc on the screen and have them looked up a
>> >> dictionary so the user can check meanings etc. It would probably also
>> >> allow for selection of language to be used in menus etc. There are
>> >> more features that could be added here as well. This application could
>> >> be written in C or C++.
>> >>
>> >> 2. The Language Learner workbench, where the various associated
>> >> segments etc are produced that will become part of the learning
>> >> bundle. It would run on Windows, Linux and Mac OS X and might be
>> >> better written in Java. It would be useful if it could automatically
>> >> find all relevant break-points in the audio material, but might need
>> >> help in doing so. It would also allow input of all textual material
>> >> that will go in the associated files. It produce, at the end, a
>> >> learning bundle with all the associated pieces of info required. It
>> >> should have the ability to save intermediate information and to read
>> >> back learning bundles so that changes/additions can be made to them.
>> >>
>> >> There are many more ideas that can be added, but I feel that these are
>> >> the minimum set that would make for a useful language learning tool
>> >> and that once there is a platform for playing the material and
>> >> producing the material, content developers will produce the learning
>> >> bundles (and possibly charge for them, but that is how they recoup
>> >> their investment in content).
>> >>
>> >> Clearly, of course, this should not be tied to just Chinese, as it
>> >> would benefit learners of any language. It just so happens that
>> >> Chinese is the language I am interested in.
>> >>
>> >> I hope to get started on these ideas after I get hold of a 本 in
>> >> October, and may do some experimenting before then ...
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Richard Sharpe
>> >>
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Richard Sharpe
>>
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-- 
Regards,
Richard Sharpe




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