follow-up re system software

Wolfgang Spraul wolfgang at qi-hardware.com
Fri Nov 20 05:21:24 EST 2009


Rafael,

> Really good words, but as i see in the OpenMoko project, the people is
> happy if we found a software workaround, but it's happier if we found
> a hardware solution that could apply to this design ;)
> I hope to have both of them.

Absolutely! We are 100% pumped to make the hiquest quality device, both in
hardware and software. No worries. I very much appreciate Ron's comments,
he always finds our weak spots and calmly reminds us to do better.

If you ask around, everybody who knows me knows I like to get the toughest
news, the one with the biggest crap, out first. I get this question regularly,
before at Openmoko and now at Qi "Wolfgang, look this here is totally broken,
can we publicly say that?". And even though it's painful, for me as well,
my answer is always "Yes! Mail it to the list, get it out.".
That's the nature of an open product, and I am very happy to be part of one.

I actually had a 3-hour meeting with our manufacturer today, and we spoke
about NAND and microSD testing at length.
They are doing all design verification and production testing with a
MicroC/OS-II. The NAND tests involve 2-4 days (!) of around-the-clock read
and write stress testing, so do the microSD tests. The advantage of working
with a high-volume manufacturer. All of this stuff passes.

Now, in an ideal world we would like to use our own Linux/OpenWrt software
for design verification and production testing as well. We did that at
Openmoko, and there is still some good stuff at git.openmoko.org.
One day we get back there.
But right now we trust the manufacturer to hammer the device, and test it.

So with the MicroC/OS-II kernel there is no problem.
With our current 2.6.31 Linux kernel there is (only in some specific cases
however, see Mirko Vogt's mail).
We will find out what's going on, and get it fixed. It's not a hardware bug,
I think (without excluding that there aren't things that could be improved on the
'hardware' side as well).

Hopes this explains a bit better what's going on...
Wolfgang

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 09:17:20AM +0100, Rafael Campos wrote:
> Wolfgang,
> 
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Wolfgang Spraul
> <wolfgang at qi-hardware.com> wrote:
> > Ron,
> >
> >> Is that issue considered a show stopper? until one understands if the
> >> root cause is hardware or software, one could argue it as being STOP
> >> SHIP severity.
> >
> > No, not a show stopper.
> > Almost the same hardware design as ours has shipped over 60,000 units already.
> > If there would be a serious microSD problem it would have been found.
> > What that means is that there is at least a workaround to the problem.
> > Also, I vaguely recall that we have not seen this issue when we started to
> > work with the original 2.6.24.3 kernel, but only after we cleaned up the
> > sources and up-leveled to 2.6.31.
> > All hardware ships with bugs. Many times you can even argue what is a hardware
> > bug and what a software bug. The lowest levels of software routinely have to
> > 'cover up' / 'workaround' hardware bugs, making the hardware look 'stable'
> > for higher levels of software.
> >
> > For this particular problem, I am confident enough that we will find a
> > software workaround in the end to not make it a STOP SHIP severity.
> > Otherwise we would never ship anything, and you would happily use lots of
> > other consumer electronics with bugs inside you just don't know about.
> >
> > However, I am clearly aware of this bug, and hopefully we get to the bottom
> > of it soon... The beauty of open - everything is known :-)
> > Wolfgang
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:30:13AM -0800, Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
> >> Mirko wrote:
> >>
> >> http://wiki.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Known_issues - if you don't think it's
> >> up-to-date feel free helping to make it up to date :)
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>
> >> Is that issue considered a show stopper? until one understands if the
> >> root cause is hardware or software, one could argue it as being STOP
> >> SHIP severity.
> >>
> >>
> >> What I was asking is where do we find a list of prioritized bugs with indication
> >> of which ones are being actively worked?
> >>
> >> with respect,
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Ron K. Jeffries
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Qi Developer Mailing List
> >> Mail to list (members only): developer at lists.qi-hardware.com
> >> Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Qi Developer Mailing List
> > Mail to list (members only): developer at lists.qi-hardware.com
> > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer
> >
> 
> Really good words, but as i see in the OpenMoko project, the people is
> happy if we found a software workaround, but it's happier if we found
> a hardware solution that could apply to this design ;)
> 
> I hope to have both of them.
> 
> Regards
> 
> -- 
> ___________
> Rafael Campos
> o0 Methril 0o
> http://openblog.methril.net/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Qi Developer Mailing List
> Mail to list (members only): developer at lists.qi-hardware.com
> Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://lists.qi-hardware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developer




More information about the discussion mailing list


interactive