SIE not part of QI?[was Re: New Ben Nanonote Case (Castle)]

Joachim Steiger roh at
Wed Dec 8 04:42:40 EST 2010

Carlos Camargo wrote:
> Yes, we've made a lot of contributions, a lot of hours working on HW
> development, but with SIE I'm alone, nobody (except Werner, Adam, Sebastien)
> reply my posts, firstly because there are a lot of SW people, we need more
> HW developers, if not we need to change the name to QI-Software.

heh. well... i think that id something which needs to grow in symbiosis,
especially when the borders between hw and sw are fading. (programmable
logic, developing own soc etc.)

> I've never said that I'm out of QI - hardware, these are your words, The
> first contributions in this project was made by me, the first Nanos saled
> was to Colombia. I'm bored because we need hardware developers, we just have
> 5 developers,  2 in Colombia, Werner, Sebastien and Adam, how can we call
> our project qi-hardware with just 5 hw developers?? I want high level
> developers like Werner and Sebastien, I like to read werner posts, Adam
> posts, Sebastien posts, but I hate to read fashion posts, sorry but I don't
> join QI hardware for talk about fashion. Here in Colombia there are a lot of
> mailing list where the people just talk, talk, talk, if we want to make a
> difference we need stronger hardware developers. Because of that I don't
> like the current mailing list, I join the developer list no the current
> list, I want to talk about electronic HW/SW development, no about fashion. I
> make a lt of posts asking for I2C drivers, and never replies this mails,
> why??? In the past when I was designing SAKC I've made a lot of posts but,
> never reply. Of course if you want a mailing list for talk about fashion is
> good, but I don't join this list I subscribe the developer list.

i can understand you very well. i also often only browse over lots of
topics in 'such mailing lists' because the content bores me... why
should i care about the 1000th music player, wallpaper or forth
interpreter? (no harm intended, just picked some boring stuff from _my_

on the other side: people seem to have real problems handling mailing
lists (in plural) and such its easier to have less lists and less stuff
on the wrong list(s), but all in 'one pot'.

also.. mechanical engineering is also something we need to learn,
understand and 'know how to do' to get the whole 'toolchain' from idea
to 'device' rolling. hw isnt just pcbs. its a pcb. its a case, its sw to
make it useful in the end.

i actually started learning a lot about mechanical engineering the last
few years (we got a cnc mill, a lasercutter and some other funny tools
in our hackspace) and it still amazes me how much thought even simple
things need when it comes to mechanics. its much harder to 'get right'
than it looks.

> My students write a lot of interesting pages about their projects, but
> Wolfgang think that are useless, he told to me that. So i don't make any
> posts about that because of that. I feel that the people is motivated for a
> wood case, crochet case, but think that the academic work is useless.
> Because of that I don't like to make posts.

please do. academic stuff isn't useless at all. it helps people to learn.

> I'm working very hard building a concept of copyleft hardware with my
> students, SIE is a very powerful platform for that, I like teh SW prject
> behind BEN, but I feel that this project is for SW guys. If we don't promote
> the hardware projects QI-hardware will convert in to QI-SOFTWARE. 5 HW
> developers is not enough.

actually.. 5 hw developers which really DO develop is a lot ;)

you'd be surprised whats 'normal' in the 'industry'.
usually you got an army of devels and only a few producing all the real
or you got some small external teams which develop stuff after spec and
then 'an army of guys' 'integrating' (messing up) the external developed
hw till it can't be recognized anymore.
in the end 80-90% of the boards i get (i do some hw-reverse-engineering
consulting from time to time) are plain clones/modifications of the evb
the soc vendor provides, stripped of all non-essential parts.
the results aren't nice. but thats how hardware is done.

qi-hw is an attempt to change that. develop together. document what we
do and why, and PLEASE. also ALL our failures. otherwise we cannot learn
from them collectively and avoid the same errors the next time :)
(thats something the industry never seems to do.)

>> My student's projects are:

i think there are some really nice ideas in there.
not necessarily for a 'product' an end-user/consumer would buy, or
actually use, but for building yourself, extending, learning.
since the latter is the foundation to get more serious hw-developers i
think it IS important.

from my point of view there is just one wish:
could you find a way to translate that stuff to english? i can't read
spanish and google translate makes 'funny sentences' sometimes, and
doesnt translate text in graphics at all.

>>> Best Regards

>>> Carlos

i hope this mail can cheer you up a bit. dont give up on the idea of
open development. but please dont limit it to only hw (naked pcb) or sw.

the cool gadgets are a combination of all of that. even artwork ;)

greetings from icy cold berlin



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