Future Copyleft devices

Alejandro Duque Rueda ingduquerueda at gmail.com
Wed May 26 09:44:20 EDT 2010


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alejandro Duque Rueda <ingduquerueda at gmail.com>
Date: 2010/5/26
Subject: Re: discussion Digest, Vol 4, Issue 33
To: discussion at lists.qi-hardware.com


Hello,

I think The nano note is useful. The discussion is if we want a gadget for
common people, just like a PDA or something like this, made according to the
market; or we want a free platform that allow us learn, develop and,
starting from there, develop new devices according to the market and
clients.

Anyway, Nanonote needs more conectivity options. Suggest Wifi and Bluetooth;

Alejo

2010/5/26 <discussion-request at lists.qi-hardware.com>

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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Future Copyleft devices (marc zonzon)
>   2. Re: Future Copyleft devices (Rub?n Berenguel)
>   3. Re: Future Copyleft devices (Phil Endecott)
>   4. Re: Future Copyleft devices (Wolfgang Spraul)
>   5. SC spreadsheet port (for testing) (jirka)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:38:26 +0200
> From: marc zonzon <marc.zonzon at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Future Copyleft devices
> To: "Users mailinglist , support, findings,     use cases and fun"
>        <discussion at lists.qi-hardware.com>
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTimZ35zG46oY1GTIa3R5EdOWl4Ylvr9cvd7q0ZVJ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:09 AM, Fernando <fcarello at libero.it> wrote:
> >> With over 500 Nanonotes now out in the wild, why is this list so quiet?
> >> Where is the passion, the enthusiasm? Fair question, methinks. ;)
> >
> > We Need Easy-to-use, Captivating, Useful Software.
> > :-)
> >
> > Seriously, what may people *do* with the Ben at the moment?
> > Basically no personal productivity software, no PIM, no complete
> multimedia
> > player, no independent Internet access, no self-hosting dev suite.
>
> I cannot agree with you Fernando, presently I have on my Nano
>  - my main productivity tool emacs
> - the script languages that I use python and lua,
> - many shells, all gnu tools, sed, awk, ...,
> -  all the source management software you can dream of, I use git to
> synchronise my BNN with laptop, and to keep track of my configuration,
>  - many PIM software I personally use pal, calcurse, abook, and emacs-org,
>  - for image and pdf we have framebuffer viewers,
>  -  for sound we have a plethora of applications, decoders, encoders
>
> May be for some users it looks like geek software, developer software,
> but not "Easy-to-use, Captivating" software! For simple minded people
> like me it is "easy to use" software. I'm too stupid to master
> "evolution" so I'm happy with emacs-org, mutt and many basic tools
> that I have the ability to configure and to tweak to my needs.
>
> > Right now, the Ben is like a toolbox we have to fill with, well, tools.
> > Possibly user-oriented tools. GUI tools. Ben-tailored tools.
>
> May be, we need tools, but what missing today is the basic layers,
> display layer and input layer still incomplete, communication layer,
> each of us can package an application, either in Debian or OpenWrt
> once you know the process it's not so difficult. But all these
> applications lie on a software stack, and to develop and maintain
> these layers that are shared among many applications we need to
> collaborate.
>
> > It is exciting for some, yet frustrating for many.
> > We have to roll up our sleeves, put off the nerd-suit and wear the user-
> > oriented-developer suit, for a while at least. :-)
> > We can do it !
> >
> >
> On this point we completely agree, so the main task I see for Nano
> software development is to set up a true developer community, and
> build the communication tools necessary to keep this community alive
> and active.
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Fernando Carello <fcarello at libero.it>
> wrote:
>
> > Now, I can't volunteer to implement these web-related changes because I
> know nothing about wiki or CSS and very little about HTML; plus I have very
> little spare time, which I think I'd better spend coding. :-)
> >
> > So I think it would be great to have a volounteer who is proficient in
> HTML/CSS/Wiki and can maintain Ben-software-related pages on a regular
> basis. :-)
>
> I don't think any volunteer can take up on itself to coordinate many
> developers having only sharing their interest in the Nano.
>
> The way to set up a wiki is to have (back to my previous rant!)
> differents layers, the knowledge of the famework designer is not the
> same than those of the wiki designer, the web designer must master the
> global apparence of the wiki, he will deal globally with css ;.. the
> site architect must set up a common framework and set up a common
> discipline of use of the wiki (I consider this global architecture as
> missing in Qi hardware wiki -:) ).
> I personnaly think that it would be good then to separate the
> different projects, and according to your interest and your knowledge
> you can choose to participate in one project. In other words you will
> not say "I know to do that" but rather "I volunteer to take that task,
> or contribute to that task".
> For the pages of the Wiki, Wikis have been set up as to allow people
> without any knowledge of html, css, javascript to share their
> knowledge. Every one can with a very smooth learning curve, begin to
> publish in a Wiki. The main problem with Wiki is often to enforce a
> common policy, to avoid to have only a bunch of scattered pages. There
> is two models to remedy that, the centralized where some people
> (helped by robots) browse the whole content and , recall the policies
> to authors, delete unsuitable pages, or propose changes, the
> distributed model where each project is responsible of its own policy,
> that nevertheless must be compatible with so common rules. There are
> also, as usual hybrids between centralized or distributed. As an
> example Wikipedia use the two models centralized one enforces the
> 'Five Pillars' (look at this page on Wikipedia) with the large 'List
> of policies' but each portal has also some control on articles.
> Because it is lighter and allows a quicker feedback, I would propose
> to better have the distributed model for Nanonote software.
> It is what I have proposed for the project of Debian-BNN without any
> success -):
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:44:02 +0200
> From: Rub?n Berenguel <ruben at mostlymaths.net>
> Subject: Re: Future Copyleft devices
> To: "Users mailinglist , support, findings,     use cases and fun"
>        <discussion at lists.qi-hardware.com>
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTin_KXcxfsBvLR4Kzts84WdliHiI5W5w4tS1yDOn at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Marc,
>
> I haven't read completely your e-mail: just read emacs and jumped to
> ask: Have you got *emacs* on the nano? Not zile, but emacs? (I know
> zile is "somewhat OK", but emacs is emacs, and org-mode is... you
> know, great)
>
> Ruben
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 13:38, marc zonzon <marc.zonzon at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:09 AM, Fernando <fcarello at libero.it> wrote:
> >>> With over 500 Nanonotes now out in the wild, why is this list so quiet?
> >>> Where is the passion, the enthusiasm? Fair question, methinks. ;)
> >>
> >> We Need Easy-to-use, Captivating, Useful Software.
> >> :-)
> >>
> >> Seriously, what may people *do* with the Ben at the moment?
> >> Basically no personal productivity software, no PIM, no complete
> multimedia
> >> player, no independent Internet access, no self-hosting dev suite.
> >
> > I cannot agree with you Fernando, presently I have on my Nano
> > ?- my main productivity tool emacs
> > - the script languages that I use python and lua,
> > - many shells, all gnu tools, sed, awk, ...,
> > - ?all the source management software you can dream of, I use git to
> > synchronise my BNN with laptop, and to keep track of my configuration,
> > ?- many PIM software I personally use pal, calcurse, abook, and
> emacs-org,
> > ?- for image and pdf we have framebuffer viewers,
> > ?- ?for sound we have a plethora of applications, decoders, encoders
> >
> > May be for some users it looks like geek software, developer software,
> > but not "Easy-to-use, Captivating" software! For simple minded people
> > like me it is "easy to use" software. I'm too stupid to master
> > "evolution" so I'm happy with emacs-org, mutt and many basic tools
> > that I have the ability to configure and to tweak to my needs.
> >
> >> Right now, the Ben is like a toolbox we have to fill with, well, tools.
> >> Possibly user-oriented tools. GUI tools. Ben-tailored tools.
> >
> > May be, we need tools, but what missing today is the basic layers,
> > display layer and input layer still incomplete, communication layer,
> > each of us can package an application, either in Debian or OpenWrt
> > once you know the process it's not so difficult. But all these
> > applications lie on a software stack, and to develop and maintain
> > these layers that are shared among many applications we need to
> > collaborate.
> >
> >> It is exciting for some, yet frustrating for many.
> >> We have to roll up our sleeves, put off the nerd-suit and wear the user-
> >> oriented-developer suit, for a while at least. :-)
> >> We can do it !
> >>
> >>
> > On this point we completely agree, so the main task I see for Nano
> > software development is to set up a true developer community, and
> > build the communication tools necessary to keep this community alive
> > and active.
> >
> > On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Fernando Carello <fcarello at libero.it>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Now, I can't volunteer to implement these web-related changes because I
> know nothing about wiki or CSS and very little about HTML; plus I have very
> little spare time, which I think I'd better spend coding. :-)
> >>
> >> So I think it would be great to have a volounteer who is proficient in
> HTML/CSS/Wiki and can maintain Ben-software-related pages on a regular
> basis. :-)
> >
> > I don't think any volunteer can take up on itself to coordinate many
> > developers having only sharing their interest in the Nano.
> >
> > The way to set up a wiki is to have (back to my previous rant!)
> > differents layers, the knowledge of the famework designer is not the
> > same than those of the wiki designer, the web designer must master the
> > global apparence of the wiki, he will deal globally with css ;.. the
> > site architect must set up a common framework and set up a common
> > discipline of use of the wiki (I consider this global architecture as
> > missing in Qi hardware wiki -:) ).
> > I personnaly think that it would be good then to separate the
> > different projects, and according to your interest and your knowledge
> > you can choose to participate in one project. In other words you will
> > not say "I know to do that" but rather "I volunteer to take that task,
> > or contribute to that task".
> > For the pages of the Wiki, Wikis have been set up as to allow people
> > without any knowledge of html, css, javascript to share their
> > knowledge. Every one can with a very smooth learning curve, begin to
> > publish in a Wiki. The main problem with Wiki is often to enforce a
> > common policy, to avoid to have only a bunch of scattered pages. There
> > is two models to remedy that, the centralized where some people
> > (helped by robots) browse the whole content and , recall the policies
> > to authors, delete unsuitable pages, or propose changes, the
> > distributed model where each project is responsible of its own policy,
> > that nevertheless must be compatible with so common rules. There are
> > also, as usual hybrids between centralized or distributed. As an
> > example Wikipedia use the two models centralized one enforces the
> > 'Five Pillars' (look at this page on Wikipedia) with the large 'List
> > of policies' but each portal has also some control on articles.
> > Because it is lighter and allows a quicker feedback, I would propose
> > to better have the distributed model for Nanonote software.
> > It is what I have proposed for the project of Debian-BNN without any
> success -):
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > discussion mailing list
> > discussion at lists.qi-hardware.com
> > http://en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:46:18 +0100
> From: "Phil Endecott" <spam_from_qihw at chezphil.org>
> Subject: Re: Future Copyleft devices
> To: <discussion at lists.qi-hardware.com>
> Message-ID: <1274874378768 at dmwebmail.dmwebmail.chezphil.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"
>
> Ron K. Jeffries wrote:
> > With over 500 Nanonotes now out in the wild, why is this list so quiet?
>
> Speaking only for myself as 1/500th of the userbase: because it doesn't
> do anything useful, so it will sit on the corner of my desk and get
> covered in dust.  It's a solution in search of a problem.  No, this is
> not a software issue: we now have all those thousands of packages in
> Debian.  The problem is that it has no connectivity (or expansion that
> supports connectivity, except for the one expensive micro-SD WiFi
> card).  When smart phones arrived, the PDA died because the phone could
> do all the PDA functions and more.  The NanoNote has the same problem.
> It's great that it is free, but being free doesn't make it useful.
>
>
> Regards,  Phil.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:04:34 +0000
> From: Wolfgang Spraul <wolfgang at sharism.cc>
> Subject: Re: Future Copyleft devices
> To: "Users mailinglist , support, findings,     use cases and fun "
>        <discussion at lists.qi-hardware.com>
> Message-ID: <20100526130434.GA4267 at devel.wolf>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Marc,
>
> > common policy, to avoid to have only a bunch of scattered pages. There
> ...
> > is two models to remedy that, the centralized where some people
> > (helped by robots) browse the whole content and , recall the policies
> > to authors, delete unsuitable pages, or propose changes, the
> > distributed model where each project is responsible of its own policy,
> ...
> > Because it is lighter and allows a quicker feedback, I would propose
> > to better have the distributed model for Nanonote software.
> > It is what I have proposed for the project of Debian-BNN without any
> success -):
>
> OK don't give up your hopes just yet :-)
> I think many people are reading your excellent mails and contributions,
> and I agree the wiki is the absolute most important piece in our
> copyleft hardware project, if we want to succeed in the long run.
>
> Right now, we definitely have the 'bunch of scattered pages' you are
> describing. While it is easy to agree with what you are saying, it takes
> some critical mass to get a good wiki going.
> I will try to do my share, and mails like yours are encouraging, I believe
> slowly more people will join the effort...
>
> The wiki is up there, it's a well maintained server, anybody can edit,
> it's our homepage. I think that's a starting point.
> http://en.qi-hardware.com/
>
> Thanks again for your mail,
> Wolfgang
>
>
>
>
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