From werner at almesberger.net Tue Aug 4 07:00:54 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 04:00:54 -0300 Subject: Anelok: doc/ spring cleaning Message-ID: <20150804070054.GF20236@ws> Just FYI: I've moved most files and directories under doc/ into subdirectories that group them by context. That way, it should be a bit easier to get one's bearings in there. The new subdirectories are: 2013/ The old wheel design; passive Y-Box 2014/ The current prototype, with slider and CR2032; active Y-Box 2015/ The next design, with AAA; Y-cable biz/ Anything related to finances and products comp/ Anything related to component selection general/ Technical material that applies to more than one design There are a few things that I'm undecided about and that I haven't moved yet and maybe won't. https://gitlab.com/anelok/anelok/blob/master/doc/README explains what all the items are. An unfortunate consequence of cleaning up is that links into the repo for things in doc/ won't work anymore. Hopefully that won't be too much of an inconvenience. - Werner From werner at almesberger.net Thu Aug 6 07:08:00 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 04:08:00 -0300 Subject: Anelok: updated diagrams: block, security, "X-ray" view Message-ID: <20150806070800.GG20236@ws> I'm updating some of the Anelok presentation material for CCCamp2015. Done so far: - block diagram: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/ccc2015/block.pdf Interactive version: http://www.anelok.com/block/2015/anelok-block.html - basic security model: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/ccc2015/security.pdf - annotated CAD ("X-ray") view: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/ccc2015/case-aaa.png If you find any bugs, please holler. I plan to have a collection of diagrams to use for informal presentations at the Neo village. I'll also have a lightning talk (5 minutes) where I'll use some of the diagrams. The lightning talk is currently scheduled for Saturday August 15, 16:30, but I've asked to have it moved to a later slot since I'll have a full-length talk on Neo900 at 15:00 and I'd prefer to have a bit more buffer between the two. I'll post when I know the final slot. https://events.ccc.de/camp/2015/wiki/Lightning_Talks - Werner From rjeffries at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:29:56 2015 From: rjeffries at gmail.com (Ron K. Jeffries) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 07:29:56 -0700 Subject: Anelok: updated diagrams: block, security, "X-ray" view In-Reply-To: <20150806070800.GG20236@ws> References: <20150806070800.GG20236@ws> Message-ID: On X-ray view (very nice!) consider adding AAA to Battery. Helps with visualizing device scale. It would be nice somewhere to show X, Y, Z dimensions as well as estimated weight. On Aug 6, 2015 12:08 AM, "Werner Almesberger" wrote: > > I'm updating some of the Anelok presentation material for CCCamp2015. > Done so far: > > - block diagram: > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/ccc2015/block.pdf > > Interactive version: > http://www.anelok.com/block/2015/anelok-block.html > > - basic security model: > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/ccc2015/security.pdf > > - annotated CAD ("X-ray") view: > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/ccc2015/case-aaa.png > > If you find any bugs, please holler. > > > I plan to have a collection of diagrams to use for informal > presentations at the Neo village. I'll also have a lightning talk > (5 minutes) where I'll use some of the diagrams. > > The lightning talk is currently scheduled for Saturday August 15, > 16:30, but I've asked to have it moved to a later slot since I'll > have a full-length talk on Neo900 at 15:00 and I'd prefer to have > a bit more buffer between the two. I'll post when I know the final > slot. > > https://events.ccc.de/camp/2015/wiki/Lightning_Talks > > - Werner > > _______________________________________________ > Qi Hardware Discussion List > Mail to list (members only): discussion at lists.en.qi-hardware.com > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From werner at almesberger.net Fri Aug 7 02:32:30 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 23:32:30 -0300 Subject: Anelok: updated diagrams: block, security, "X-ray" view In-Reply-To: References: <20150806070800.GG20236@ws> Message-ID: <20150807023230.GH20236@ws> Ron K. Jeffries wrote: > On X-ray view (very nice!) consider adding AAA to Battery. Helps with > visualizing device scale. It would be nice somewhere to show X, Y, Z > dimensions Updated: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/ccc2015/case-aaa.png > as well as estimated weight. Hah, there you got me :) I don't know the plastic volume nor do I have a list with the weight of individual components. But the high-level answer would be that the weight is insignificant. (Unless you're planning to air-ship a lot of units. You'll need to book another 747 after the first 2-3 million or so.) The low-level approximation is that the CR2032 version, battery included, is about 20 g, and an AAA battery is about 10 g. So the full device should be around 30-40 g, about half the weight of a Zippo. - Werner From rjeffries at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 03:10:14 2015 From: rjeffries at gmail.com (Ron K. Jeffries) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 20:10:14 -0700 Subject: Anelok: updated diagrams: block, security, "X-ray" view In-Reply-To: <20150807023230.GH20236@ws> References: <20150806070800.GG20236@ws> <20150807023230.GH20236@ws> Message-ID: Cool. I think AAA label is value add as it gives good hint as to scale. A rough approx of weight was all I was asking. The comparison with a cigarette lighter is not bad. Your KLtab board looks useful. On Aug 6, 2015 7:32 PM, "Werner Almesberger" wrote: > Ron K. Jeffries wrote: > > On X-ray view (very nice!) consider adding AAA to Battery. Helps with > > visualizing device scale. It would be nice somewhere to show X, Y, Z > > dimensions > > Updated: > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/ccc2015/case-aaa.png > > > as well as estimated weight. > > Hah, there you got me :) I don't know the plastic volume nor do I > have a list with the weight of individual components. > > But the high-level answer would be that the weight is insignificant. > (Unless you're planning to air-ship a lot of units. You'll need to > book another 747 after the first 2-3 million or so.) > > The low-level approximation is that the CR2032 version, battery > included, is about 20 g, and an AAA battery is about 10 g. So the > full device should be around 30-40 g, about half the weight of a > Zippo. > > - Werner > > _______________________________________________ > Qi Hardware Discussion List > Mail to list (members only): discussion at lists.en.qi-hardware.com > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: > http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From werner at almesberger.net Fri Aug 7 21:26:28 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 18:26:28 -0300 Subject: Anelok: more campy stuff Message-ID: <20150807212628.GI20236@ws> The slides of my lightning talk (may still change): http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/cccamp2015/light.pdf And I've updated the files in http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/ccc2015/ some more, to make them more readable when used in a presentation. - Werner From hellekin at gnu.org Fri Aug 7 23:59:40 2015 From: hellekin at gnu.org (hellekin) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2015 20:59:40 -0300 Subject: Anelok: more campy stuff In-Reply-To: <20150807212628.GI20236@ws> References: <20150807212628.GI20236@ws> Message-ID: <55C5466C.6060206@gnu.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 08/07/2015 06:26 PM, Werner Almesberger wrote: > The slides of my lightning talk (may still change): > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/cccamp2015/light.pdf > "The enemy can not push a button... if you disable his hand. Medic!" I mean, please do some copyright infringement :) == hk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJVxUZiXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFQ0IyNkIyRTNDNzEyMTc2OUEzNEM4ODU0 ODA2QzM2M0ZDMTg5ODNEAAoJEEgGw2P8GJg9QOQQAJnN1Psss3Pez8rJBrZnhYj8 SuA3FCtxeR9KaLN0gM6VcoKGdbnUgDkDWAT0kJHRkB51kTbyNadBbv3N+74v1L6a gR+uY+bdhiKplPtC1DTu5iAPadLo58ySFqeG8WgARULtFgD+amze4WDfwYkMbOgw hd9PBVdCaFzeglx4Pi+PWWdltllE7YX0g1dA9Lc/5cwM0ceaOScJQC74zySE5HWE hV1Wfv+odBAbTHN4AXppbngnzgUprgzrKuqehzsve5X8Pjl6T1RoJr4h9FaaitZU i+YU3DL2k+8X6BQ83suMhd8TlooQVoZydZrGtNThZGj3CoO2cS9hM+Dtfvuv9sn3 VhDGSUTwcTyqfpn8u7nox6BYTQt7iobX34w6SgWN0/kwXGQ8/rERdSdpQVPu6isA ZsE9O2TUumb5ZBV7iiq9wzjLOVSW9OTM0vicoGGe0GTW0zLKmRxU4DYPRS8/CkOz DGK9LpB12Oxx3uEi/g1fKoRWNkKxJsb05oXWCxN/QJnvG+qKriOCXNXqf+ikUD0c DFEUH7TFZQX2+0iMWbGSuOlBEjsYVL3oE3+7J6A6AWYYTT0wRw9e2TvxJ6XhTsx6 zC+zWkCGvLI2qezfMSEB21AHJn6bgHKRm+FYRocnRcamNMVJcI2t2AKdkpl6bhNX IHX7q3Cnw7iFZvXEJ/nN =T1vT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From werner at almesberger.net Sat Aug 8 01:44:10 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 22:44:10 -0300 Subject: Anelok: more campy stuff In-Reply-To: <55C5466C.6060206@gnu.org> References: <20150807212628.GI20236@ws> <55C5466C.6060206@gnu.org> Message-ID: <20150808014410.GJ20236@ws> hellekin wrote: > "The enemy can not push a button... if you disable his hand. Medic!" Damn, that was quick ! I thought my Starship Troopers reference would go unnnoticed for a little longer ;-) > I mean, please do some copyright infringement :) Naw, that ought to pass under "fair use". Or at least as respectful homage :) - Werner From werner at almesberger.net Sun Aug 9 23:18:20 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 20:18:20 -0300 Subject: Anelok: business poll results Message-ID: <20150809231820.GK20236@ws> Three weeks ago, Dave and I asked for feedback on your preferences for community-based financing of the Anelok project, specifically for the remaining R&D work and then moving it towards production. http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/pipermail/discussion/2015-July/010931.html First of all, thanks to all who have responded to the poll ! The responses we received showed a high degree of generosity (all offered donations), but the total amount offered was very small, less than 1% of what we would need to see this through R&D. Unfortunately, the idea of investing into the project (with a corresponding participation in revenue) does not seem to have much appeal - at least nobody considered that option. This means that we will need to find a "plan B" to fund the next stage of development. A kickstarter style campaign may be an option, but we had hoped to reach a more polished prototype beforehand. Any ideas would be welcome ! I'll pitch Anelok at the CCCamp, but this is more a place for finding developers (which we need, too) than investors. - Werner From wijnen at debian.org Mon Aug 10 17:07:00 2015 From: wijnen at debian.org (Bas Wijnen) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 17:07:00 +0000 Subject: Anelok: business poll results In-Reply-To: <20150809231820.GK20236@ws> References: <20150809231820.GK20236@ws> Message-ID: <20150810170700.GC21233@spark.dtdns.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 09, 2015 at 08:18:20PM -0300, Werner Almesberger wrote: > First of all, thanks to all who have responded to the poll ! Sorry I didn't; I was busy and didn't get to it yet. You probably wouldn't have liked my answer anyway. :-p I like this project to see how you do things, but I'm not all that interested in the actual result. (And therefore, I don't feel like spending a lot of money on it.) > The responses we received showed a high degree of generosity (all > offered donations), but the total amount offered was very small, > less than 1% of what we would need to see this through R&D. > > Unfortunately, the idea of investing into the project (with a > corresponding participation in revenue) does not seem to have much > appeal - at least nobody considered that option. > > This means that we will need to find a "plan B" to fund the next > stage of development. > > I'll pitch Anelok at the CCCamp, but this is more a place for > finding developers (which we need, too) than investors. I'm not surprised, and I think this list is filled with the same type of people. I have no idea where to find investors; I try to avoid those kind of people when I can. :-p > A kickstarter style campaign may be an option, but we had hoped to > reach a more polished prototype beforehand. Any ideas would be > welcome ! I agree that a more polished version would greatly help such a campaign. I have no ideas about how to get there... Thanks, Bas -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVyNozAAoJEJzRfVgHwHE6aZsP/1X7nT+wY6CYxyeToR4XYYT7 L07gF2CRROwqy+0PBvdWpYZz2+j0033Y8RL33DM/m2+H6TDGtsvpYHuYCWls8ZSS yvHb5BwK26uLTaYvXqWJIWDutfbExZXSlTR5YWM0Ac680eWsi0f7RuSvNu1i2jUH 654vahTPF/XK/mKW5Q3XcRoVaUZqcg6JSZ2weWezJS/26kDPByXiPIhy9ow1pZc8 qCylhUitZaRBmf8pHcrgQHOpiSPyO5RH6XV5TuGIFEsq0C+740epQYI1ZPhQva7d LCyYmspFrkQyGUqNeKun9qqjAnX+Q0kDDFcKqyOPyasfLfIR4OLwYArFx6iM87xz hR9W05CmpiFRJNtpRcFvXA/CneYYyLn5grCv0Xetj2HvpVfucrx0VYep+V368lyt yIwV0dhXZWdBwfPY6RPWzl2opOYOLeep5OYBGlQytWZnuwalyl4EEfvEFUI/AfnK EcPabRPhnTIG9o1EdZQGugpNuujYRngT9ZXTgO/K3nEA4pV2fu9dbLvQI284MA1m sNXbqj4Nx2L/AgdUS21LAzoTUjy3ZsTrxK10x1rPM+5nFGsXicYeHOo9iywB49Ra pkSOOfjEh2XPteKm30OqJT5TG6TiZySEGzKYCYYse1VHWlU9pO2VoNjlWW3dMaM4 GUrKE9biI8icKVtDRbTI =PrUG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From paul at boddie.org.uk Wed Aug 12 15:38:52 2015 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 17:38:52 +0200 Subject: Anelok: business poll results In-Reply-To: <20150810170700.GC21233@spark.dtdns.net> References: <20150809231820.GK20236@ws> <20150810170700.GC21233@spark.dtdns.net> Message-ID: <201508121738.52867.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Monday 10. August 2015 19.07.00 Bas Wijnen wrote: > On Sun, Aug 09, 2015 at 08:18:20PM -0300, Werner Almesberger wrote: > > > > This means that we will need to find a "plan B" to fund the next > > stage of development. > > > > I'll pitch Anelok at the CCCamp, but this is more a place for > > finding developers (which we need, too) than investors. > > I'm not surprised, and I think this list is filled with the same type of > people. I have no idea where to find investors; I try to avoid those kind > of people when I can. :-p Indeed! Still, I happened to be reading the latest Mailpile blog article [1] today and noticed that Bjarni refers to the Open Technology Fund [2]. They seem to support a variety of projects [3], and Anelok does seem to be substantially less vague than some of those listed. One of those projects - Subgraph OS - may even be at the CCCamp, judging from a tweet I saw, so you might even be able to meet funded individuals and be able to peek behind their isometric architecture diagrams [4] - very fake retro, a bit like Wired magazine circa 2003 - and anonymous-looking GitHub presence [5]. Paul [1] https://www.mailpile.is/blog/2015-08-10_Issue_Cleanup_Frenzy.html [2] https://www.opentechfund.org/ [3] https://www.opentechfund.org/projects [4] https://subgraph.com/sgos/graph/index.en.html [5] https://github.com/subgraph From werner at almesberger.net Thu Aug 13 23:40:51 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:40:51 -0300 Subject: Anelok: CCCamp2015 lightning talk, final details Message-ID: <20150813234051.GA13315@ws> I now have the final details: the talk will be at Simulacron-3, a huge tent, Saturday August 15, at 17:10 If you want to stop over at the Neo village, we're just across the path, east of Simulacron-3. My slides are here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/cccamp2015/light.pdf - Werner From werner at almesberger.net Fri Aug 21 05:42:26 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:42:26 -0300 Subject: Anelok at CCCamp2015, quick summary Message-ID: <20150821054019.GA8998@ws> CCCamp2015 was pretty intense. I was there mainly for Neo900, but got to show Anelok to a few people, too. A few considered a password safe as something a bit too pedestrian, but most liked it. I also gave a lightning talk: http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/anelok-lightning.mp4 Alas, no developers, investors, press, or other magical creatures showed up. So I'd consider the overall result more of an exercise in how to present things (and how to do better) than anything that would help the project to move forward at this time. - Werner From werner at almesberger.net Fri Aug 21 06:22:56 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:22:56 -0300 Subject: Anelok: slider woes Message-ID: <20150821062256.GB8998@ws> The capacitative slider did not like the great outdoors beyond Berlin and proved to be a major nuisance. Much of the time, it flat out refused to work, or it would move only part of the range. I tried a few quick fixes, but they only made things worse. Specifically, they are: - for "on" mode, set a fixed calibration (via DEVCFG) and disable auto-calibration: https://gitlab.com/anelok/anelok/commit/b140c2f9a5c57051fafa782ae9b0b58970fb9298 Theory: if auto-calibration goes astray, it can make Anelok unresponsive or difficult to use for a while. Using a "known to be good" value would avoid this problem. But then, I don't know whether a single such value actually exists. - prevent entering the lower power-saving modes (DEVCFG option): https://gitlab.com/anelok/anelok/commit/17511100b3c7d0a704fa1116a234a267cd6dda56 Theory: when switching off the boost converter, slider values change and Anelok needs to re-calibrate to be able to still read the slider while the boost converter is off. If such re-calibration goes wrong, e.g., because there is still a finger on the slider when turning off, it may prevent Anelok from responding for a long time (eventually, periodic calibration should resolve the issue, but this may take some time.) I'm getting fed up with the messy slider. It would seem to me that one ought to be able to make this work, but I'm clearly too stupid to figure out how. Possible sources of avoidable trouble may include: - fragile connection between main PCB and the slider PCB. I'm using short cables that may break or detach from the solder joint. A broken connection would be a catastrophic failure that should clearly stick out, but if contact is intermittent, that may be harder to find. The AAA design will use a proper board-to-board connector, but also there, if I can make a prototype, it will have to do with the non-ideal components I have at home. - issues on the slider PCB. One of the battery contacts is very close to a trace of the sensor, and there may be shorts, possibly intermittently. In the AAA design, this area is much less crowded. - voltage variations. We already know that switching from boost (3.3 V) to battery (2-3 V) significantly changes the sensor's performance. There may also be smaller variations during boosted operations, e.g., if the battery can't quite keep up with the converter's current demand. Since battery performance depends on temperature, this could explain why I had trouble with the settings from Argentine winter in late-summery Berlin. The AAA design will run its boost converter all the time and its battery will be able to keep up with any likely current demand, so if a wobbly battery is indeed the main issue, that will solve itself. However, I suspect that also the processing of sensor data could be considerably improved. One of my devices responded well when on USB power, so once I noticed that, I could at least show tethered Aneloks. This also allowed me to demonstrate the HID keyboard feature, which people generally liked. A plan B for the slider would be to go back to mechanical switches. - Werner From werner at almesberger.net Fri Aug 21 07:01:08 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 04:01:08 -0300 Subject: Anelok: Kinetis W-series Message-ID: <20150821070108.GC8998@ws> Nick mentioned on IRC this board that uses a Kinetis W-series MCU: http://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Orchard_Main_Page I didn't know about this KW series, so I went to investigate. A Kinetis-based radio could be interesting a) because the MCU architecture would be familiar, and b) if USB is an option, too, a single chip could do RF and be cMCU. There are the following chips to consider: [1] - KW01Z: sub-GHz only, used in the Orchard board, no USB - KW2xD: 802.15.4 (wpan), no BT(LE), has USB option - KW20Z: 802.15.4 (wpan), no USB, not yet available - KW30Z, KW40Z: BTLE, no USB, not yet available I inquired with Freescale support about availability and openness, but they told me to ask a local distributor. Ah well. In any case, it seems that no chip with both BTLE and USB is planned. [1] http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?code=KINETIS_W_SERIES - Werner From werner at almesberger.net Fri Aug 21 07:39:26 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 04:39:26 -0300 Subject: Anelok: Passfort Message-ID: <20150821073926.GD8998@ws> Nick also spotted this new competitor of Anelok, called Passfort, and found it "eerily similar": https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/xolutronic/passfort-your-digital-life-secure Let's compare: Feature Passfort Anelok ----------------------- ----------------------- ----------------- Openness Closed Open Display 1.44" color 1.3" monochrome Input Touch screen Slider Storage Internal uSD Wired connectivity USB 2.0 USB 2.0, Full-speed Wireless connectivity BT 4.0 BTLE Rfkill ? Hardware Power source Rechargeable cell Replaceable AAA Battery life 7 days / charge (*) ~5 months (*) Form factor Keychain Lighter Size (bounding box) 47 x 38 x 14 mm 52 x 45 x 14 mm Price USD 59 TBD, < USD 100 (*) Passfort battery life is based on 15 daily accesses "via Bluetooth" while Anelok estimates are based on 5 daily (human) interactions of 1 minute each. They also seem to have most of the software functionality planned for Anelok working, such as browser integration, password generation, etc. So it's indeed very similar, and they have an existing team, a fairly good-looking prototype, and also financing - plenty of things to be envious of. Kickstarter interest seems to have waned a bit, but they still have plenty of time: https://www.kicktraq.com/projects/xolutronic/passfort-your-digital-life-secure/#chart-daily Their responses to comments also look very good. Keys and display ought not to go together too well, though. But who knows. Does this obsolete Anelok ? Not quite yet. But given that the biggest differentiator, openness, is not a selling argument, it probably does affect Anelok's potential market size. Anyway, it's nice to see something think about the right lines for such a product. - Werner From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 12:28:23 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:28:23 -0300 Subject: Anelok at CCCamp2015, quick summary In-Reply-To: <20150821054019.GA8998@ws> References: <20150821054019.GA8998@ws> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 2:42 AM, Werner Almesberger wrote: > CCCamp2015 was pretty intense. I was there mainly for Neo900, but > got to show Anelok to a few people, too. A few considered a > password safe as something a bit too pedestrian, but most liked it. > I also gave a lightning talk: > > http://neo900.org/stuff/cccamp15/anelok-lightning.mp4 Great!, thanks a lot Werner. > Alas, no developers, investors, press, or other magical creatures > showed up. So I'd consider the overall result more of an exercise > in how to present things (and how to do better) than anything that > would help the project to move forward at this time. no developers, no investors, no press... What kind of people were there? gardeners? weightlifters? bus drivers? :) Btw, could you link some news about neo900 here as well? Or is it a mess? (do that) I like that project but I am not in that community yet. Thanks a lot, Rafa From werner at almesberger.net Fri Aug 21 21:55:39 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:55:39 -0300 Subject: Anelok at CCCamp2015, quick summary In-Reply-To: References: <20150821054019.GA8998@ws> Message-ID: <20150821215539.GE8998@ws> Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: > no developers, no investors, no press... > What kind of people were there? gardeners? weightlifters? bus drivers? :) Naw, it was a very varied mix of people. Many are mainly interested in politics or the societal impact of technology, so they may understand what Anelok accomplishes and how it works in general, but they wouldn't, say, want to write a driver. Some came just for the blinkenlights and a couple of days out in the sun. Of course some are developers, but a) may be interested in other things, b) may be busy already, or c) simply didn't find out about Anelok. Neo900 took center stage at our village. E.g., the big screen that attracted lots of people always had Neo900 material on it, not Anelok. Had Anelok featured more prominently, there may have been more responses. This is the big screen, in all of its 55 inch glory (it looks even more imposing in real life than on this picture): http://dosowisko.net/cccamp15/20150816_001.jpg The big screen was planned as a backup in case something went wrong with our scheduled talks, so we didn't have any plans for using it as a regular feature of our village. Then we figured we should do something with it and we put the slides of the lightning talk on it, on permanent rotation. Noticing that I could basically do a whole presentation with just the block diagram, we eventually moved the slides to a PC (the TV would switch back to TV after a few minutes of showing a static image) and just had the block diagram. That also worked well for attracting visitors. Anelok featuring more prominently would of course have required more and better preparation. E.g., we had only this little whiteboard to advertize things to people walking by, and you have to look twice to even notice Anelok there: http://dosowisko.net/cccamp15/20150813_003.jpg The whiteboard was still incredibly useful. First, we could use it to indicate our talk schedule, as one can almost see here: http://dosowisko.net/cccamp15/20150816_004.jpg Second, at night, when illuminated by a spotlight, it was insanely effective as a people magnet. We had about as many spontaneous visitors between midnight and 2 am as during a whole afternoon. There had been a plan to print banners, but that didn't materialize. (And, expecting this to be taken care of, I didn't think of bringing at least some A4 sheets with the Anelok logo.) Better presenting Anelok would also have required more people. I already did as much talking as I could for Neo900. For Neo900, we had on average three people who could take turns on this, plus another three village members who could help with the occasional operations issue. Press coverage was surprisingly sparse. Heise.de, Germany's main IT news outlet, covered the first two days of the camp but then seem to have disappeared. So they missed the little thunderstorm that caused an emergency evacuation of the camp on the third day, about 15 minutes after I ended my talk and rudely interrupting Paul's presentation on Replicant. (Of course, considering what I know from Argentina, this was a rather insignificant weather event, not to mention the typhoon I once found waiting for me outside Openmoko's factory in China a few years ago.) Given the type of event, it's not really a place where you'd expect to find the average investor. Of course, there could have been a chance encounter, but given the generally rather subdued and conservative investment culture of Germany, that wasn't a very likely occurrence. > Btw, could you link some news about neo900 here as well? Or is it a > mess? (do that) Hmm, we're still collecting and preparing things. This will take some time. I made a post about my slides in the megathread, but there's more to come: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1479906 - Werner From werner at almesberger.net Sun Aug 23 02:07:27 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 23:07:27 -0300 Subject: Anelok: save the slider ! Message-ID: <20150823020727.GF8998@ws> Anelok's capacitive slider has made a terrible mistake - it has caused embarrassment for its boss. Worse yet, the slider gives no sign of accepting the blame and removing itself gracefully. If Werner has learned anything from his work in China, it is that such a transgression must not go unpunished. Will the slider be destroyed by Werner's just anger ? He already added button shortcuts (cursor up, left, and down, or the corresponding vi cursor keys, for top, middle, and bottom "soft" button) to the simulator ... and kinda likes the result. https://gitlab.com/anelok/anelok/commit/cb9ae5a66a392c409955348bf73b7183de497efe Time is running out for the slider ! Only you can save it ! The following quests await the champion who rushes to the slider's aid: - locate the Gloves of Fumbling [cursed], understand how they were supposed to work, and discover the source of their corruption; (hint: fw/2014/touch.c) - cleverly devise a way to remove the curse; - implement and test your solution; (*) - send your code to the Dark Oracle (Werner, wearing another of his many faces), have its fitness judged, and have it stand trial on Werner's devices. - if necessary, repeat some of the above quests and use the EXP you gained to reach a higher score. (*) Courtesy of Xiangfu, a small number of caseless [1] and pre-rework [2] prototypes of the CR2032 design are available. If demand should exceed supply, a beauty contest will be held. [1] http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/anelok/tmp/Anelok-3-brds.jpg [2] http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/boost-rework.pdf http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/boost-rework-cables.jpg http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/boost-rework-cuts.jpg In case you have not trained the skills needed to fulfill this quest, consider using Word of Mouth to summon a suitable paladin. - Werner From rjeffries at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 02:18:22 2015 From: rjeffries at gmail.com (Ron K. Jeffries) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 19:18:22 -0700 Subject: Anelok: save the slider ! In-Reply-To: <20150823020727.GF8998@ws> References: <20150823020727.GF8998@ws> Message-ID: Slider is OK concept, if it works. It's not clear to me what the proposed alternative is or how it would be used. My hunch is hardware stays the same with button areas on what is now a sliver. That makes sense for cursor functions. I am baffled as to how vi key bindings might be presented. Your note is very clever. On Aug 22, 2015 7:07 PM, "Werner Almesberger" wrote: > Anelok's capacitive slider has made a terrible mistake - it has > caused embarrassment for its boss. Worse yet, the slider gives > no sign of accepting the blame and removing itself gracefully. > If Werner has learned anything from his work in China, it is > that such a transgression must not go unpunished. > > Will the slider be destroyed by Werner's just anger ? He already > added button shortcuts (cursor up, left, and down, or the > corresponding vi cursor keys, for top, middle, and bottom "soft" > button) to the simulator ... and kinda likes the result. > > > https://gitlab.com/anelok/anelok/commit/cb9ae5a66a392c409955348bf73b7183de497efe > > Time is running out for the slider ! Only you can save it ! > > The following quests await the champion who rushes to the > slider's aid: > > - locate the Gloves of Fumbling [cursed], understand how they > were supposed to work, and discover the source of their > corruption; > (hint: fw/2014/touch.c) > > - cleverly devise a way to remove the curse; > > - implement and test your solution; (*) > > - send your code to the Dark Oracle (Werner, wearing another of > his many faces), have its fitness judged, and have it stand > trial on Werner's devices. > > - if necessary, repeat some of the above quests and use the EXP > you gained to reach a higher score. > > (*) Courtesy of Xiangfu, a small number of caseless [1] and > pre-rework [2] prototypes of the CR2032 design are available. > If demand should exceed supply, a beauty contest will be held. > > [1] > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/anelok/tmp/Anelok-3-brds.jpg > > [2] > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/boost-rework.pdf > > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/boost-rework-cables.jpg > > http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/boost-rework-cuts.jpg > > In case you have not trained the skills needed to fulfill this quest, > consider using Word of Mouth to summon a suitable paladin. > > - Werner > > _______________________________________________ > Qi Hardware Discussion List > Mail to list (members only): discussion at lists.en.qi-hardware.com > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: > http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From werner at almesberger.net Sun Aug 23 03:23:57 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:23:57 -0300 Subject: Anelok: save the slider ! In-Reply-To: References: <20150823020727.GF8998@ws> Message-ID: <20150823032357.GG8998@ws> Ron K. Jeffries wrote: > Slider is OK concept, if it works. Yes, that little "if" is the problem ... > It's not clear to me what the proposed > alternative is or how it would be used. The alternative would be to add buttons (either micro switches or domes) where the slider is now. With three buttons, you'd have the same functionality as with the slider now, minus sliding. Comparison buttons (3 of them) vs. slider: Attribute Slider Button --------------------------------------- --------------- --------------- BOM cost "free" moderate / high Response to dirt / aging immune degrade / fail Mechanical load distribution case top PCB (Unintended) activation threshold low medium Signal processing demanding easy (debounce) Tactile response no yes Power consumption (when idle) polling none Gestures, single touch 5 3 (5 ?) multi touch n/a <= 4, may be messy To scroll through a list, you'd press "up" or "down" repeatedly. (There can be no auto-repeat because long presses are already used for other functions.) For example, when on the accounts list, the buttons are currently assigned to the following functions: Button Tap Long press Very long press ------- ----------------------- --------------- --------------- Top Previous entry (up) Setup (1, 2) Setup (2) Middle unassigned Select entry Select entry Bottom Next entry (down) Switch off Zap session (1) Would become "back" once directories are implemented and you're in a subdirectory. (2) Or "Alert" if an asynchronous notification is pending. (Press "A" in the simulator to generate a radio alert.) If you make a sliding movement while pressing on the slider, fw/ui/input.c switches to slider mode and generates N pixels up/down information. You can play with all this in the simulator. With more than three buttons, be it real or virtual (e.g., by combining top/bottom and middle), auto-repeat would also be possible. Going > 3 buttons may be get messy, though, given the limited space. > I am baffled as to how vi > key bindings might be presented. Ah, that's for the simulator: Cursor key vi key Anelok slider area --------------- --------------- ------------------ Up K Top Left L Middle Down J Bottom > Your note is very clever. Thanks ! :) - Werner From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 14:08:42 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:08:42 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem (acid + oxygenated water) Message-ID: Hi, I have been trying to make a diy pcb. Before I have had success, but I do not know really now (in my new diy lab) what is the problem. I am using toner transfer and acid to make the board. My problem is the acid part. What I am seeing is that the toner is removed when I am trying to remove the copper with acid. Then, the board left ruin :( I show two pictures : first, the toner transfer looks okey for me : http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/WP_20150827_09_37_27_Pro.jpg Then, when I put the board for a few minutes in the acid 50% + oxygenated water 50% I get this board with destroyed tracks :( http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/board-problem.jpg If somebody has some ideas about this kind of making the board and this problem I would appreciate some help. Thanks in advance, Rafa P.S. The board is for using a mk20dx256 from freescale From werner at almesberger.net Thu Aug 27 15:28:12 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 12:28:12 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem (acid + oxygenated water) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20150827152812.GH8998@ws> Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: > What I am seeing is that the toner is removed when I am trying to > remove the copper with acid. Then, the board left ruin :( Interesting effect :-) How long did you etch until you got this ? > http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/board-problem.jpg The solution looks very green. Maybe add a bit of 30% peroxide until the color gets more blueish. You also seem to have a lot of etching solution. You only need enough to submerge the board. If you use a hermetically sealable container, you can reuse the solution. If it gets stale, you can refresh it by adding a bit of HCl and peroxide. - Werner From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 15:37:36 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 12:37:36 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem (acid + oxygenated water) In-Reply-To: <20150827152812.GH8998@ws> References: <20150827152812.GH8998@ws> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Werner Almesberger wrote: > Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: >> What I am seeing is that the toner is removed when I am trying to >> remove the copper with acid. Then, the board left ruin :( > > Interesting effect :-) How long did you etch until you got > this ? I got that "interesting effect" in few boards I tried :( But I do not loose the hopes ;) it lasted around 7min - 10min etching I think >> http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/board-problem.jpg > > The solution looks very green. Maybe add a bit of 30% peroxide > until the color gets more blueish. You also seem to have a lot of > etching solution. You only need enough to submerge the board. > > If you use a hermetically sealable container, you can reuse the > solution. If it gets stale, you can refresh it by adding a bit of > HCl and peroxide. Thanks a lot Werner. I will try with a bit more of peroxide like you suggested. News soon :) Rafa From werner at almesberger.net Thu Aug 27 15:48:59 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 12:48:59 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem (acid + oxygenated water) In-Reply-To: References: <20150827152812.GH8998@ws> Message-ID: <20150827154859.GI8998@ws> Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: > I got that "interesting effect" in few boards I tried :( I've never seen anything like this. Maybe the toner chemistry is unusual. Did you clean the PCB with alcohol before applying the toner ? When cleaning, you'll also remove any (usually black) residues from the steel wool you used for scrubbing. > it lasted around 7min - 10min etching I think This sounds like a reasonable duration. By increasing the peroxide concentration you'll make it faster, which may help. - Werner From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 12:16:40 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:16:40 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem (acid + oxygenated water) In-Reply-To: <20150827154859.GI8998@ws> References: <20150827152812.GH8998@ws> <20150827154859.GI8998@ws> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Werner Almesberger wrote: > Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: >> I got that "interesting effect" in few boards I tried :( > > I've never seen anything like this. Maybe the toner chemistry > is unusual. > > Did you clean the PCB with alcohol before applying the toner ? > When cleaning, you'll also remove any (usually black) residues > from the steel wool you used for scrubbing. Werner, your tips did this now : http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/20150828_085752.jpg Thanks a lot! I did both tips, a good cleaning of PCB and less muriatic acid than oxygenated water. Now I can rest Rafa From werner at almesberger.net Fri Aug 28 13:09:21 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:09:21 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem (acid + oxygenated water) In-Reply-To: References: <20150827152812.GH8998@ws> <20150827154859.GI8998@ws> Message-ID: <20150828130921.GA6165@ws> Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: > http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/20150828_085752.jpg A feast for sore eyes ! :-) Congratulations ! > Now I can rest s/rest/solder/ ;-) Not sure how long you can leave the board like this before you get nasty copper oxidation. In any case, once you've removed the toner, you should quickly tin all the traces. - Werner From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 17:40:35 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 14:40:35 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem (acid + oxygenated water) In-Reply-To: <20150828130921.GA6165@ws> References: <20150827152812.GH8998@ws> <20150827154859.GI8998@ws> <20150828130921.GA6165@ws> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Werner Almesberger wrote: > Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: >> http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/20150828_085752.jpg > > A feast for sore eyes ! :-) Congratulations ! > >> Now I can rest > > s/rest/solder/ ;-) ok ok, ... soldering in progress http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/WP_20150828_12_32_54_Pro.jpg > Not sure how long you can leave the board like this before > you get nasty copper oxidation. In any case, once you've > removed the toner, you should quickly tin all the traces. I will try to do this then as well. Thanks a lot, Rafa From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 17:43:49 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 14:43:49 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Christoph Pulster wrote: >> Maybe add a bit of 30% peroxide until the color gets more blueish. > > Similar advice on my side: use more peroxide, test with your > girlsfriends hair until color gets more blond. > And dont forget to share some pics :) Hehe.. No sure if gf would like to let me to try that ;-)) I am sharing, how does it look so far? Rafa From werner at almesberger.net Sun Aug 30 17:50:12 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 14:50:12 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20150830175012.GB6165@ws> Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: > I am sharing, how does it look so far? Pretty good. You may be using a bit too much solder, though. There are two important considerations when soldering: 1) Use plenty of flux. 2) Always make sure you heat each of the things you want to join as directly as possible. Only then will the solder flow freely and make good contacts. If you pre-tinned the PCB, then there will also be a tiny amount of solder on the pads, making it even easier to solder the pins. - Werner From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 11:48:22 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 08:48:22 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem In-Reply-To: <20150830175012.GB6165@ws> References: <20150830175012.GB6165@ws> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Werner Almesberger wrote: > Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: >> I am sharing, how does it look so far? > > Pretty good. You may be using a bit too much solder, though. > There are two important considerations when soldering: > > 1) Use plenty of flux. I am using plenty/a lot. I have already learnt that from your projects :) > 2) Always make sure you heat each of the things you want to join > as directly as possible. Only then will the solder flow freely > and make good contacts. This is a little hard yet. I do not have a good soldering station now Well, it is good (zd 931), but the pencil does not have a small tip, so I just touch a bit the the things, and then I take a bit of tin on the tip and just touch really fast. I check the join with tester and if I get the "beep" I do not touch it anymore; because if I do, I often break the join and then I can not fix it anymore > If you pre-tinned the PCB, then there will also be a tiny amount > of solder on the pads, making it even easier to solder the pins. The same that in 2). I try to do, but if it is really hard then I do not try harder to continue. Rafa From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 11:58:21 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 08:58:21 -0300 Subject: soldering mk20 mk22 - power test problem Message-ID: I have soldered pin 6 (VREGIN) and 23 (VSS) : http://fz.hobby-site.org/hp660lx/soldering3.jpg (red line is pin 6, black is 23) I put 5v from USB pc port in pin 6 (VREGIN) and GND from USB pc port on pin 23. Then, I tested pin 5 (VOUT33, white line in picture), guessing that I would get 3.3v from internal regulator. But no :( on pin 6 and GND I get 5.02V, and testing pin 5 and GND I get 4.96V, but no 3.3V as expected. Should I put capacitors first before test? Is it needed all the VSS soldered before this kind of test? Could somebody with knowledge on this kind of MCUs tell me if this is the proper effect with this minimal test? Thanks in advance and reading to realize if this is correct. Rafa From markfptuson at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 14:32:36 2015 From: markfptuson at gmail.com (Mark Tuson) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 15:32:36 +0100 Subject: diy pcb making problem In-Reply-To: References: <20150830175012.GB6165@ws> Message-ID: OK, bored of seeing all this now. There's no NanoNote stuff, and hasn't been for years, and that's why I joined. Tried to unsubscribe on several occasions but the site won't let me. So can someone please unbreak the website so I can unsubscribe, or just take me out of this mailing list. kthxbai. On 31 August 2015 at 12:48, Rafael Ignacio Zurita < rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Werner Almesberger > wrote: > > Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: > >> I am sharing, how does it look so far? > > > > Pretty good. You may be using a bit too much solder, though. > > There are two important considerations when soldering: > > > > 1) Use plenty of flux. > > I am using plenty/a lot. I have already learnt that from your projects :) > > > 2) Always make sure you heat each of the things you want to join > > as directly as possible. Only then will the solder flow freely > > and make good contacts. > > This is a little hard yet. I do not have a good soldering station now > Well, it is good (zd 931), but the pencil does not have a small tip, so I > just > touch a bit the the things, and then I take a bit of tin on the tip > and just touch really fast. I check the join with tester and if I get > the "beep" I do not touch it anymore; because if I do, I often > break the join and then I can not fix it anymore > > > If you pre-tinned the PCB, then there will also be a tiny amount > > of solder on the pads, making it even easier to solder the pins. > > The same that in 2). I try to do, but if it is really hard then I do > not try harder to continue. > > Rafa > > _______________________________________________ > Qi Hardware Discussion List > Mail to list (members only): discussion at lists.en.qi-hardware.com > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: > http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 14:56:31 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:56:31 -0300 Subject: diy pcb making problem In-Reply-To: References: <20150830175012.GB6165@ws> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Mark Tuson wrote: > OK, bored of seeing all this now. There's no NanoNote stuff, and hasn't been > for years, and that's why I joined. > > Tried to unsubscribe on several occasions but the site won't let me. > > So can someone please unbreak the website so I can unsubscribe, or just take > me out of this mailing list. Hi, we are trying to have a mini single layer board with a modern MCU for using in our university, with open/free hw kicad details, based on mchck and this : https://hackaday.io/project/662-mcslck (which dont have kicad project files). So I wrote thinking that this post is not OFF topic. Just to clarify about these posts on qi community, since "Qi Hardware is sharing hardware". Rafa From werner at almesberger.net Mon Aug 31 15:18:18 2015 From: werner at almesberger.net (Werner Almesberger) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:18:18 -0300 Subject: soldering mk20 mk22 - power test problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20150831151818.GC6165@ws> Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: > Is it needed all the VSS > soldered before this kind of test? It certainly can't hurt. I don't know how they connect internally, but at least all the VSS on the left side (pins 2, 11, 12) should be connected to ground. (And connecting pin 23 won't be much of an effort either :) > Should I put capacitors first before test? It can't hurt either. Didn't you have that problem a while ago already ? I.e., that you didn't have capacitors and the chip performed erratically. Also, is your MCU actually powered ? There doesn't seem to be a direct connection between VOUT33 and VDD*, so I don't know if you're even in a defined state. Regarding soldering, the solder will flow towards hot surfaces. So you don't need to heat up a single pin at a time but you can heat up several pins at once. Plus, make sure you also heat the pad under the pin. Only then will you get a proper solder joint. I usually solder QFNs and such in two passes: the first pass is to just establish enough solder joints, no matter how untidy, that the chip stays in place. The second pass is to reflow the areas where things didn't work out. In the second pass, I can add or remove solder. Also make sure your iron is hot enough. If it's just at the point where solder will melt, it will get too cold as soon as you touch something. A range of about 280 C to 300 C should be good, but you'll have to find what works best with your iron and your station. Unless you've cranked up the heat far too high, you also don't have to be in a rush to remove the iron from a solder joint. You have to keep it there long enough to fully melt the solder and to fully heat pin and pad. Only then will you get a good solder joint. Another thing to check is that VOUT33 doesn't accidently make contact with VREGIN. Also, the regulator may need a minimum external load of a few uA before it actually can regulate. - Werner From paul at boddie.org.uk Mon Aug 31 15:20:46 2015 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 17:20:46 +0200 Subject: diy pcb making problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201508311720.46755.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Monday 31. August 2015 16.56.31 Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Mark Tuson wrote: > > OK, bored of seeing all this now. There's no NanoNote stuff, and hasn't > > been for years, and that's why I joined. > > > > Tried to unsubscribe on several occasions but the site won't let me. > > > > So can someone please unbreak the website so I can unsubscribe, or just > > take me out of this mailing list. Sending "help" to discussion-request at lists.en.qi-hardware.com will get help on unsubscribing via mail, in case the Web site doesn't work. > Hi, we are trying to have a mini single layer board with a modern MCU > for using in our university, with open/free hw kicad details, based on > mchck and this : https://hackaday.io/project/662-mcslck (which dont > have kicad project files). > > So I wrote thinking that this post is not OFF topic. > Just to clarify about these posts on qi community, since "Qi Hardware > is sharing hardware". Indeed. If anyone wants a successor to the NanoNote, I think the Pyra is probably closest at the moment: http://www.pyra-handheld.com/ I know that the EOMA-68 initiative has an Ingenic board on the runway, for anyone wanting broad compatibility with the Ben, but I think Luke is waiting for his supplier to schedule board production: http://rhombus-tech.net/ingenic/jz4775/news/ That doesn't help you get a complete device, but an interesting project would involve adding the extra parts, casing, and so on. Paul P.S. I used the Fritzing Fab service to make a board recently: the lazy man's route to a finished circuit board. ;-) From rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 22:42:39 2015 From: rafaelignacio.zurita at gmail.com (Rafael Ignacio Zurita) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:42:39 -0300 Subject: soldering mk20 mk22 - power test problem In-Reply-To: <20150831151818.GC6165@ws> References: <20150831151818.GC6165@ws> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Werner Almesberger wrote: > Rafael Ignacio Zurita wrote: >> Is it needed all the VSS >> soldered before this kind of test? > > It certainly can't hurt. I don't know how they connect internally, > but at least all the VSS on the left side (pins 2, 11, 12) should > be connected to ground. (And connecting pin 23 won't be much of an > effort either :) Still nothing :( I soldered all the VSS on the left side and bottom side. But, VOUT33 still gives me 5v :( I have checked that there is not short between pins. > >> Should I put capacitors first before test? > > It can't hurt either. Didn't you have that problem a while ago > already ? I.e., that you didn't have capacitors and the chip > performed erratically. Yes. I had. But it was powering the MCU with 3.3v from nanonote, without using the internal regulator. > Also, is your MCU actually powered ? There doesn't seem to be a > direct connection between VOUT33 and VDD*, so I don't know if > you're even in a defined state. No yet. There is not connection between vout33 and vdd. I wanted to check the vout33 first, before to do those connections. > Regarding soldering, the solder will flow towards hot surfaces. So > you don't need to heat up a single pin at a time but you can heat > up several pins at once. Plus, make sure you also heat the pad > under the pin. Only then will you get a proper solder joint. > > I usually solder QFNs and such in two passes: the first pass is to > just establish enough solder joints, no matter how untidy, that > the chip stays in place. The second pass is to reflow the areas > where things didn't work out. In the second pass, I can add or > remove solder. > > Also make sure your iron is hot enough. If it's just at the point > where solder will melt, it will get too cold as soon as you touch > something. A range of about 280 C to 300 C should be good, but > you'll have to find what works best with your iron and your > station. > > Unless you've cranked up the heat far too high, you also don't > have to be in a rush to remove the iron from a solder joint. You > have to keep it there long enough to fully melt the solder and to > fully heat pin and pad. Only then will you get a good solder > joint. I will save all these tips. Thanks Werner. > Another thing to check is that VOUT33 doesn't accidently make > contact with VREGIN. Also, the regulator may need a minimum > external load of a few uA before it actually can regulate. It does not. At least when checking with tester. ANd I have put 5v in vregin for a while using two sources in tests: usb port and using 5v from a pc power supply. It will be continued ... Rafa